00:00:04.480 Welcome back to another episode of Tech
00:00:06.000 Unhinch where tech gets summon. I’m your
00:00:07.839 host Rabia. Today we are joined by
00:00:09.519 someone who understands what it takes to
00:00:11.679 build safer, stronger and more resilient
00:00:13.759 organizations in complex high-risk
00:00:15.839 environments. Angelica is a senior
00:00:17.760 health, safety, environment leader with
00:00:19.520 over 16 years of experience across
00:00:21.439 diverse industries including regulated
00:00:23.519 and high-risisk sectors. She currently
00:00:25.359 serves at OEC Energy and Infrastructure
00:00:27.680 where she leads enterprisewide
00:00:29.199 initiatives with a strong emphasis on
00:00:31.199 leadership, accountability,
00:00:32.479 organizational culture, and prevention
00:00:34.559 outcomes. Welcome to Tech Unhinged,
00:00:36.320 Angelica.
00:00:36.960 >> Thank you, Rabia. Very happy to be here
00:00:38.800 today. Thanks for having me.
00:00:39.920 >> So, Angelica, you’ve built your career
00:00:41.760 around protecting people and shaping
00:00:43.600 culture. What first drew you into
00:00:45.760 occupational health and safety as a
00:00:48.160 profession?
00:00:48.800 >> So, my path into occupational health and
00:00:51.120 safety was shaped by something very
00:00:53.280 personal. Growing up, I heard stories
00:00:55.039 about my great uncle losing his right
00:00:57.039 arm in an industrial accident because
00:00:59.039 there was no guarding on the machine he
00:01:00.719 was working with. So that stayed with me
00:01:02.960 and not just because of the injury but
00:01:04.959 because of how his life and trajectory
00:01:07.520 changed because he was young. He had a
00:01:10.080 promising career ahead of him and
00:01:11.920 overnight that future completely changed
00:01:14.479 and it impacted him at so many different
00:01:16.960 levels even his confidence, his
00:01:19.119 independence. So, as a child, I didn’t
00:01:21.439 really understand the technical reasons
00:01:24.000 behind what happened. But what I
00:01:25.920 understood was that something
00:01:27.360 preventable had permanently altered
00:01:29.200 someone’s life path. And so later when I
00:01:32.159 entered the workplace, I realized that
00:01:34.320 those outcomes aren’t random. They’re
00:01:36.560 really connected to decisions of how
00:01:39.040 work is designed, what leaders
00:01:40.720 prioritize, and whether risks are
00:01:42.560 addressed before something happens. So
00:01:45.360 that realization was deeply personal for
00:01:48.079 me and I realized that safety isn’t
00:01:50.320 about compliance. It’s about protecting
00:01:52.079 people’s lives and their futures.
00:01:54.000 >> Most of times while I speak to safety
00:01:56.560 leaders, there’s always a personal story
00:01:58.640 behind who they are today. Angelica, you
00:02:01.200 recently shared a powerful reflection
00:02:03.040 about mentorship while I was going
00:02:05.119 through, you know, your leadership
00:02:07.040 stance on your LinkedIn. Be it on legacy
00:02:09.598 and the impact leaders have beyond
00:02:11.360 deliverables. When you think about your
00:02:13.120 career so far, what does legacy mean to
00:02:15.680 you as a safety leader?
00:02:17.040 >> So legacy for me, it’s about preventing
00:02:20.000 harm before it happens and for me it’s
00:02:22.959 about whether or not I can share
00:02:25.040 something or model something, someone
00:02:27.200 understand risk differently. So when I,
00:02:30.080 you know, when I train people and I have
00:02:31.920 conversations and when something clicks
00:02:34.239 and a leader really sees a potential
00:02:36.400 consequence of their decisions, that
00:02:38.800 changes outcomes. And so, you know, and
00:02:41.680 I talked earlier about my great uncle
00:02:43.920 that could have prevented that workplace
00:02:46.400 injury and that, you know, sharing that
00:02:49.840 knowledge and really influencing leaders
00:02:53.040 to recognize that risk before something
00:02:55.680 happens and acting earlier before
00:02:57.920 someone’s life is impacted. That’s what
00:02:59.760 legacy is for me. It’s tough in the
00:03:02.000 safety profession because we’re often
00:03:04.480 measured on the things that don’t
00:03:06.080 happen. So, that’s very challenging. But
00:03:08.560 you know when nothing happens because
00:03:10.319 someone applied that knowledge and a
00:03:12.560 different outcome occurred then that
00:03:14.560 invisible protection to me is my legacy.
00:03:17.760 >> I think that’s a great way to go about
00:03:19.360 it. All right. So Angelica if you dive a
00:03:21.440 bit into the topic now um while we talk
00:03:23.920 about redefining safety leadership we
00:03:26.080 see that many organizations still see
00:03:28.480 safety as a compliance exercise. From
00:03:30.480 your perspective what does it really
00:03:32.480 mean to move beyond compliance?
00:03:34.959 >> So compliance to me is the floor. It’s
00:03:37.599 not the goal essentially the bare
00:03:39.280 minimum. So moving beyond compliance
00:03:41.519 means focusing on the upstream drivers
00:03:44.159 of safety performance. I often describe
00:03:47.280 this as leadership influencing culture
00:03:50.239 and culture driving those behaviors,
00:03:52.640 those behaviors determining different
00:03:54.480 outcomes. So when organizations only
00:03:57.360 focus on compliance or injury
00:03:59.760 statistics, they’re reacting to results.
00:04:02.319 It’s already too late. they’re not
00:04:04.080 taking the steps to shape the condition
00:04:06.159 that produce those results. So strong
00:04:08.720 safety performance really does start
00:04:10.720 with leadership decisions and that to me
00:04:13.120 is moving beyond compliance really is.
00:04:15.439 >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And how does
00:04:17.440 true safety leadership show up you know
00:04:19.279 on a day-to-day especially at the
00:04:21.440 executive and board level.
00:04:23.120 >> So leadership really shows up in
00:04:25.440 everyday signals that people receive.
00:04:27.840 It’s about what leaders prioritize and
00:04:30.240 the decisions and the responses more so
00:04:33.280 when things go wrong. So if we’re going
00:04:36.000 into situations where something occurs,
00:04:38.080 somebody gets injured and there is blame
00:04:41.199 after that incident that signals it’s
00:04:43.759 about blame, right? So when I go into
00:04:45.600 investigations, I often say it’s factf
00:04:48.400 finding not blame finding. So those
00:04:50.560 signals really shape that culture and
00:04:52.560 that culture shapes the behaviors.
00:04:54.240 leaders understanding that their actions
00:04:56.160 have a direct line to safety outcomes
00:04:58.479 whether leaders realize it or not is
00:05:00.479 really what it means to show up as a
00:05:02.720 true leader every day. So Angelica, you
00:05:04.960 did sort of reflect um upon it what I’m
00:05:07.120 going to ask you um you know now but in
00:05:09.680 your experience if you have to um state
00:05:12.240 it explicitly what separates
00:05:14.639 organizations that just do compliance
00:05:18.000 you know for the sake of it and what
00:05:20.639 differentiates them from the ones who
00:05:23.039 genuinely um embed safety into their
00:05:25.680 culture.
00:05:26.160 >> So the biggest difference is truly
00:05:28.000 ownership. So in compliance focused
00:05:30.479 environments, safety belongs to the
00:05:32.400 safety team. But in strong cultures,
00:05:34.639 safety belongs to leaders. Protecting
00:05:36.560 their people is really something that
00:05:38.479 they own. So organizations that excel
00:05:41.520 truly understand that the outcomes are
00:05:43.360 the result of their behaviors and what
00:05:45.120 they prioritize. There’s been different
00:05:47.520 uh examples throughout history, but
00:05:49.440 there’s been CEOs that set safety as
00:05:52.080 truly the priority and that is what
00:05:55.360 drives that behavior and the reduction
00:05:57.759 of accidents and prioritizing people. So
00:06:00.000 culture is never accidental. Truly,
00:06:02.479 >> that’s very true. How do you see AI
00:06:04.319 changing the way safety leaders operate
00:06:06.240 today?
00:06:06.800 >> So AI is changing safety leadership
00:06:09.280 primarily by improving visibility to
00:06:11.520 risk. So what I mean is AI gives leaders
00:06:15.039 earlier insights into patterns,
00:06:17.199 conditions, and behaviors that influence
00:06:19.360 outcomes. So we’re starting to see a
00:06:21.280 range of technologies across the
00:06:22.720 industry. For example, there’s robots
00:06:24.639 that can be used to perform inspections
00:06:26.720 or access environments that may pose
00:06:28.960 risk to people or things like wearable
00:06:31.840 technologies or systems like industrial
00:06:34.319 exoskeletons, which are essentially
00:06:36.560 devices that are worn over the body to
00:06:38.800 support movement and reduce strain
00:06:40.639 during physical demanding tasks. Those
00:06:42.800 approaches reduce exposure by providing
00:06:45.360 better information to leaders. But
00:06:47.680 what’s important and what fundamentally
00:06:49.759 doesn’t change is that leadership still
00:06:52.240 has a role to play and that te that that
00:06:54.639 technology or the AI doesn’t replace
00:06:57.280 leadership judgment. It raises the bar
00:06:59.360 for it because better information should
00:07:01.440 lead to better decisions and leaders are
00:07:03.360 still accountable how the information is
00:07:05.199 used.
00:07:05.919 >> So Angelica from your vantage point
00:07:08.560 where can AI genuinely add value to
00:07:11.360 safety outcomes and where should leaders
00:07:13.680 be cautious about it? So AI and emerging
00:07:16.240 technologies add the most value when
00:07:18.240 they help reduce exposure and provide
00:07:20.319 better information to sport decisions as
00:07:22.560 as I mentioned earlier. So you know when
00:07:24.880 we look at robots that can conduct
00:07:27.919 safety assessment on construction sites
00:07:29.840 and in hazardous environments they
00:07:32.160 identify the conditions that may pose
00:07:33.919 risk without exposing the people
00:07:35.919 directly. And that information is
00:07:37.680 incredibly useful. But as I mentioned,
00:07:39.840 it doesn’t replace that leadership
00:07:41.759 aspect because leaders still need to be
00:07:44.240 present. They need to have conversations
00:07:46.240 with teams, understand context, and
00:07:48.720 ensure that corrective actions and
00:07:50.880 measures are actually taking place
00:07:53.520 because that insight that technology
00:07:55.840 provides doesn’t create accountability
00:07:58.479 and it doesn’t drive culture. So I would
00:08:01.280 say that leaders have to be cautious
00:08:03.280 about that over reliance because what
00:08:06.000 happens is AI and technology can create
00:08:08.560 a false sense of security if people
00:08:11.039 assume risk has been eliminated rather
00:08:13.440 than changed. So AI ultimately provides
00:08:16.560 knowledge not the solution itself. We
00:08:18.800 still need engagement and leadership
00:08:21.039 judgment as those remain essential.
00:08:23.199 >> Absolutely. And how do you ensure
00:08:25.199 technology supports better decisions
00:08:27.599 rather than distancing leaders from the
00:08:29.599 realities on the ground?
00:08:31.039 >> Yeah. So um again one of the risks is
00:08:33.679 around the access to more information
00:08:35.839 but that creates perhaps an illusion of
00:08:38.320 understanding all factors surrounding
00:08:40.719 work and people. So leaders do need to
00:08:44.240 remain closer to the work because they
00:08:46.959 have more data but the information alone
00:08:49.360 can’t capture the context, the nuance or
00:08:51.519 the human factors that influence
00:08:53.279 outcomes because ultimately employees
00:08:55.920 understand their work best. They know
00:08:57.839 the variability, the challenges and the
00:09:00.480 realities that aren’t always visible or
00:09:03.519 apparent through technology or EI. So
00:09:05.760 the tools do have a pitfall and perhaps
00:09:09.200 oversimplifying situations or missing
00:09:11.920 important nuances that are especially
00:09:14.399 true in complex environment. So
00:09:16.480 technology supports better decisions,
00:09:18.800 but it really comes down to maintaining
00:09:20.959 connection to the workforce. Leaders
00:09:22.959 need to spend time where work is
00:09:24.640 happening, ask questions, understand how
00:09:27.279 tasks are actually performed and listen
00:09:29.600 to the people doing the tasks and use
00:09:32.399 that technology to highlight patterns or
00:09:34.800 potential risks. But conversations and
00:09:36.959 relationships are ultimately what
00:09:38.959 provide the real insight. And so the
00:09:42.320 goal is to use AI and technology to
00:09:45.120 inform judgment, not replace that
00:09:47.200 engagement. When the leaders combine
00:09:49.360 information with frontline knowledge,
00:09:51.120 decisions do improve significantly and
00:09:53.360 we’ve seen that.
00:09:54.399 >> Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, if we
00:09:57.279 talk about the ethical side of AI, now
00:10:00.080 AI often raises concerns around
00:10:02.560 surveillance, data, privacy and trust.
00:10:04.880 So, how should safety leaders navigate
00:10:06.800 these concerns while maintaining
00:10:08.399 credibility with their own workforce?
00:10:10.399 >> That’s a great question. I think that,
00:10:12.640 you know, trust is really the foundation
00:10:14.959 when introducing new technology and AI.
00:10:17.760 People need to essentially understand
00:10:20.000 why it’s being used and how it benefits
00:10:22.800 them because if employees perceive
00:10:25.600 technology as monitoring or surveillance
00:10:28.000 rather than support, that credibility
00:10:30.000 can erode very quickly and the
00:10:31.839 relationship as well. And I’ll give you
00:10:33.920 an example. with wearable technology
00:10:36.800 like industrial exoskeletons. The
00:10:39.200 devices are designed to support the body
00:10:41.440 during those physically demanding tasks.
00:10:43.680 But it’s important that employees
00:10:45.440 understand that intent because what it’s
00:10:48.399 trying to do is to reduce the strain and
00:10:51.519 help prevent injury, not to do things
00:10:53.760 like monitoring how many breaks somebody
00:10:55.680 takes or how fast are working. So in
00:10:58.480 order to uh you know ensure that this
00:11:01.760 technology launch or AI launch is
00:11:03.839 effective and successful that clarity
00:11:06.640 comes from leadership communication and
00:11:08.800 involvement. Employees should be engaged
00:11:10.880 early understand the purpose and have
00:11:13.200 some input in how that technology is
00:11:15.200 used and that will drive trust
00:11:17.279 increasing significantly because
00:11:19.440 ultimately credibility comes down to the
00:11:21.920 alignment between what leaders are
00:11:24.160 communicating and the employee
00:11:26.079 experience. So if people believe that
00:11:28.079 the technology is there to protect them,
00:11:30.240 adoption will follow. If they believe
00:11:32.079 it’s about control, resistance follows.
00:11:34.480 >> No, that was that was a very interesting
00:11:36.079 point that you made there. So you know,
00:11:38.079 Angelica, if we look at safety critical
00:11:40.800 environments, we know that human
00:11:42.480 judgment is really essential there. How
00:11:44.720 do leaders strike the right balance
00:11:46.640 between automation and accountability
00:11:48.560 these days?
00:11:49.440 >> So automation can reduce human error in
00:11:52.640 some situations, which is very a truly
00:11:55.360 positive thing. But that accountability
00:11:57.360 never disappears. Leaders remain
00:11:59.279 responsible for how systems are
00:12:01.040 designed, implemented and monitored and
00:12:03.279 they need to really be involved every
00:12:05.120 step of the way because human judgment
00:12:07.279 is still essential especially when the
00:12:09.279 conditions change or something
00:12:10.800 unexpected happens. So again a tool not
00:12:13.680 the ultimate solution.
00:12:15.360 >> Absolutely. You know a very relevant
00:12:17.360 question to what most of the people have
00:12:19.440 been asking around these days. What
00:12:21.519 ethical responsibilities do leaders
00:12:23.360 carry when introducing AI into
00:12:25.920 environments where people’s lives and
00:12:28.240 well-beings are at stake? So when
00:12:30.160 leaders introduce AI or new technologies
00:12:32.560 into these environments where both
00:12:34.320 safety and well-being is or are
00:12:37.040 involved, the ethical responsibility is
00:12:39.839 significant because those decisions
00:12:42.000 directly affect how people experience
00:12:44.000 work, their sense of safety, and
00:12:45.920 sometimes their livelihoods. And
00:12:47.680 technology isn’t neutral. It changes how
00:12:50.240 decisions are made, how work is
00:12:51.839 performed, and how people are supported.
00:12:53.920 So leaders are responsible not just for
00:12:56.639 whether someone works technically, but
00:12:58.720 how it impacts people in practice. And
00:13:02.160 that ethical leadership in the space
00:13:04.399 means being intentional about purpose,
00:13:06.639 transparency, and consequences. Just
00:13:08.800 because a technology has the capability
00:13:11.519 to do something, it doesn’t
00:13:12.959 automatically mean it should be
00:13:14.560 implemented without understanding the
00:13:16.880 broader impact on people and culture. So
00:13:19.440 ultimately introducing AI again doesn’t
00:13:22.079 take away from that leadership
00:13:23.440 responsibility. It increases it and
00:13:25.440 leaders remain accountable for those
00:13:26.959 decisions they make and the outcomes of
00:13:29.040 how people experience those decisions.
00:13:31.120 >> Yeah. Yeah. And now when we move on to
00:13:33.360 the next section of our podcast where
00:13:35.440 we’re going to talk about you know
00:13:36.639 leadership capability in the age of AI.
00:13:39.360 I know that this question is going to
00:13:41.040 probably resonate on a very personal
00:13:42.560 level with you as well that as
00:13:44.160 technology evolves how must the role of
00:13:46.399 the safety leader evolve alongside it.
00:13:48.800 >> So the role as a safety leader has to
00:13:51.120 evolve from being primarily compliance
00:13:53.839 focused to being much more integrated
00:13:57.040 into leadership decisionm. So safety
00:13:59.760 leaders can’t just understand the risk.
00:14:02.639 They need to understand the technology,
00:14:05.360 the operations and human behavior and
00:14:08.240 how it interacts with the system or the
00:14:10.399 technology. So what that means is
00:14:12.480 stronger systems thinking and the
00:14:14.560 ability to interpret information and the
00:14:17.120 confidence to influence decisions at
00:14:19.279 higher levels of the organization. So
00:14:21.279 truly the safety role becomes more about
00:14:23.600 judgment and less so about enforcement
00:14:26.160 because technology can provide the data
00:14:28.399 but leaders still need to understand
00:14:30.639 what the information means and what
00:14:32.959 actions matter the most and that’s where
00:14:35.199 the safety leader needs to bridge those
00:14:37.519 two in that safety leaders become
00:14:39.839 strategic advisers. They help leaders
00:14:42.160 anticipate risk, make better decisions
00:14:44.800 and balance performance with protection
00:14:47.199 using that technology. technology
00:14:49.120 doesn’t reduce the need for safety
00:14:50.959 leadership. It increases the
00:14:52.480 expectations for it.
00:14:53.600 >> So Angelica, given all of this, what do
00:14:55.600 you think what are the new skills or
00:14:57.680 mindsets you believe that future safety
00:14:59.920 leaders will need to succeed in an AI
00:15:02.240 enabled world?
00:15:03.279 >> So I think the biggest shift for future
00:15:05.440 safety leaders is mindset. Technology
00:15:08.639 will continue to evolve quickly and
00:15:11.040 leaders need to be comfortable learning
00:15:13.040 continuously and adapting, not waiting
00:15:15.680 until they feel like experts. So
00:15:18.320 curiosity becomes important,
00:15:20.320 understanding what new tools can do, but
00:15:22.639 also questioning their limitations. AI
00:15:24.880 can provide information, but the leaders
00:15:26.959 still need that critical thinking um and
00:15:29.360 safety leaders specifically to interpret
00:15:32.560 and decide what matters. So courage
00:15:35.279 becomes another key capability as well.
00:15:38.160 As technology changes how organizations
00:15:40.800 operate, safety leaders will need the
00:15:42.800 confidence to speak up and challenge
00:15:45.360 decisions constructively when risk is
00:15:47.360 high. And underlying all of that is
00:15:50.160 human connection. No matter how advanced
00:15:52.320 technology becomes, leadership still
00:15:54.880 involves trust, communication, and
00:15:56.720 relationship. Mo much more in the safety
00:15:58.959 space. And we need to be able to balance
00:16:00.959 that technical curiosity with strong
00:16:03.120 human awareness. And that will lead to
00:16:05.120 the most effectiveness and most success
00:16:07.040 around it. Absolutely. See, Angelica, we
00:16:09.600 know that leadership is not just about
00:16:11.440 leading, but it’s mostly about
00:16:12.880 empowering your people. So, how can
00:16:14.800 leaders today ensure frontline teams
00:16:17.360 feel empowered enough as much as they do
00:16:19.680 and not feel replaced by digital and
00:16:22.079 AIdriven tools? I would say involve them
00:16:24.800 early as early as possible because when
00:16:27.600 people participate in the solution and
00:16:29.680 in this case in how technology is
00:16:31.759 introduced whether it’s robotics,
00:16:33.920 wearable support system or any other AI
00:16:36.480 tools, they’re more likely to trust it
00:16:38.720 and use it effectively. So it’s about
00:16:41.440 that buyin, right? And respect for that
00:16:44.000 frontline expertise is also fundamental.
00:16:46.480 As we mentioned earlier, there’s there’s
00:16:48.399 a lot of complex environments and and
00:16:50.399 nuances. So technology is really there
00:16:52.480 to support people not to replace them.
00:16:54.800 >> So you know diving into the future and
00:16:57.120 the legacy looking ahead 5 to 10 years
00:16:59.839 what does excellent safety leadership
00:17:01.519 look like in a more datadriven and
00:17:03.839 automated world to Angelica?
00:17:05.919 >> So in the next 5 to 10 years excellent
00:17:08.480 safety leadership will look less like
00:17:10.480 owning a safety program and more like
00:17:12.880 shaping how decisions are made across
00:17:15.119 the organization. So the strongest
00:17:17.439 organization will use that data and
00:17:19.359 technology to identify risks earlier and
00:17:22.160 learn faster and prioritize the controls
00:17:24.480 that actually reduce the exposure. And
00:17:27.039 that’s really where the future is. But
00:17:28.960 the real differentiator won’t be the
00:17:31.039 tools. It’ll be how leaders integrate
00:17:32.960 them responsibly and how they stay
00:17:34.640 connected to the work and they involve
00:17:36.240 that frontline expertise and they ensure
00:17:38.559 that information leads to action, not
00:17:41.120 just reporting. So it’s definitely going
00:17:43.679 to be more around integration in a more
00:17:46.320 automated world and safety leadership
00:17:48.880 will be defined by decision quality,
00:17:51.120 trust and follow through. The future
00:17:52.960 isn’t datadriven safety, it’s
00:17:55.280 decision-driven safety.
00:17:56.799 >> Yeah, absolutely. And you know the last
00:17:59.520 question to our podcast Angelica for
00:18:02.000 emerging safety professionals listening
00:18:04.000 to you today. What advice would you give
00:18:06.240 them about building a career that not
00:18:08.400 only delivers results but truly shapes
00:18:10.799 safer futures?
00:18:11.840 >> I would say focus on understanding
00:18:13.520 people and organizations not just
00:18:15.520 regulations. really integrate yourself
00:18:18.160 into the organization. Understand the
00:18:20.799 culture, understand the people, and
00:18:22.960 build that credibility through
00:18:24.880 relationships, integrity, and curiosity.
00:18:27.840 Always ask questions, and remember that
00:18:30.080 safety leadership isn’t about authority.
00:18:32.320 It’s about influence. The goal isn’t
00:18:34.559 compliance. It’s truly to protect the
00:18:37.200 lives of the people that work there.
00:18:39.200 >> Absolutely. Well, Angelica, thank you so
00:18:41.760 much for your grounded and insightful
00:18:44.000 conversation with us today. Thank you so
00:18:46.320 much. So happy to be part of this great
00:18:48.240 conversation.
00:18:49.039 >> Well, and to everyone listening, thank
00:18:50.640 you for joining us on Tech Unhinged.
00:18:52.320 We’ll see you next time.