00:00:04.560 Welcome to another episode of Tech
00:00:06.480 Uninched where we dive into the raw
00:00:08.720 unfiltered world of technology
00:00:10.400 innovation and the incredible people
00:00:12.320 driving the change. I’m Asher and today
00:00:14.480 we’re exploring the impact of cloud
00:00:16.560 computing or for SMBs and SMMBs. Joining
00:00:19.520 me is Joseph Damian, director of IT at
00:00:21.840 Franklin Empire. He leads the company’s
00:00:23.920 technology strategy, infrastructure
00:00:25.840 modernization and cyber security
00:00:27.680 posture. With over 25 years in IT, he
00:00:30.080 has driven business critical
00:00:31.519 transformations across telecom, banking,
00:00:34.000 legal services and distribution, helping
00:00:36.399 organizations modernize operations
00:00:38.559 generally and unlock measurable results.
00:00:40.719 Great to have you on the podcast,
00:00:42.000 Joseph.
00:00:42.559 >> Thank you. Thank you so much for having
00:00:43.920 me.
00:00:44.480 >> All right. So, you’ve lived the full
00:00:46.239 evolution of it, right? So from big
00:00:48.480 server rooms to now clouds and you know
00:00:52.079 literally clouds and automation. What
00:00:54.399 you know what was one of the things that
00:00:56.879 kind of made you realize that hey there
00:00:59.199 has been a strategic shift that has
00:01:01.359 happened you know in the last two three
00:01:03.199 two three decades almost and we can’t
00:01:05.519 really keep doing it the old way.
00:01:07.600 >> Yes. Yes indeed. So yeah exactly. So I
00:01:10.799 started on a very very junior level 27
00:01:13.280 28 years ago in the IT field. uh I
00:01:16.240 started from a very uh very old
00:01:18.799 technology and then follow all the the
00:01:21.119 technology one after the other. The
00:01:23.680 reason why u you need to move forward or
00:01:28.320 move from a traditional IT setup to
00:01:30.560 hybrid cloud strategies or go more with
00:01:33.439 the technology. many many points that
00:01:35.600 that that drove all IoT leaders to to to
00:01:38.960 follow those shifting so those those uh
00:01:42.479 I mean um change from from one
00:01:44.960 technology to another technology first
00:01:46.880 we’re talking about the cost
00:01:48.000 optimization for example this is
00:01:50.159 something that every company take in
00:01:52.479 consideration the scalability that uh
00:01:55.200 that there is a need the flexibility of
00:01:58.240 uh in deployment for example it’s way
00:02:00.799 different way easier when you deploy on
00:02:03.759 a cloud than than on from the old
00:02:06.399 technology. Now we have uh something
00:02:08.959 called a DR disaster recovery that was
00:02:11.760 improved. This is something very
00:02:13.760 practical and very safe for all uh
00:02:16.239 enterprises that uh anything happen you
00:02:18.640 can recover in and faster depends your
00:02:21.280 your DR and depends your connection and
00:02:23.840 everything faster innovation cycles
00:02:26.959 talking about let’s say the need for
00:02:29.440 better performance and availability. So
00:02:31.760 when you shift from the old or the
00:02:33.920 traditional IT to to the modern one
00:02:36.959 performance-wise it’s very important
00:02:39.200 with all the applications that we’re
00:02:40.640 using now nowadays with all the uh the
00:02:43.519 solutions that we have in the place and
00:02:45.519 definitely uh security posture
00:02:47.599 improvement is way better than than what
00:02:49.920 it was before
00:02:50.800 >> right so I think one of the major shifts
00:02:53.440 really started happening when any
00:02:55.120 consumer could now very easily launch an
00:02:58.239 application you know just setting up a a
00:03:01.040 easy system or an instance and then be
00:03:03.519 able to scale it as well. Right? So he
00:03:05.120 doesn’t even he or she that person
00:03:06.480 doesn’t really need to worry about where
00:03:08.480 to get the hardware from. I don’t even
00:03:10.080 have to have a knowledge on on on that
00:03:11.760 front. So I guess that was what I feel
00:03:14.159 the one of the biggest shift or
00:03:16.239 transitioning that that kind of took
00:03:17.840 place right and obviously organizations
00:03:20.000 now typically have to worry less about
00:03:22.239 setting up DSI setting up backups
00:03:24.400 because that kind of automatically gets
00:03:26.560 managed for you as well. So uh I mean on
00:03:28.879 a personal note how did you kind of
00:03:30.959 start your career in the idea? I mean
00:03:32.720 what was it? Was it just by pure luck or
00:03:36.239 you actually wanted to get into this
00:03:38.000 space?
00:03:38.480 >> When you see the whole world is changing
00:03:40.879 around you and you see the technology is
00:03:42.879 faster than what we think it is. Uh you
00:03:45.599 have no choice. You have to put your
00:03:47.280 feet on the uh on the ground and you
00:03:49.200 have to follow the the train though.
00:03:50.959 have to grab this train and and follow
00:03:52.879 whatever other companies are in front of
00:03:55.440 you or or or you you start to feel that
00:03:57.840 you are start to for being behind them a
00:04:00.239 little bit. So you need to catch up with
00:04:01.680 them. So yeah, this is something that
00:04:03.680 especially in it especially in
00:04:05.920 technology. There is no there is no way
00:04:08.959 to sit and just watch what other people
00:04:11.439 are doing. It’s just you need to be uh
00:04:14.480 ready and and and up to any anything
00:04:17.358 comes in and then and then you have to
00:04:19.279 you have to catch up with with all the
00:04:21.199 technology that that it’s really faster
00:04:22.960 than than the years that going fast and
00:04:25.440 the technology is faster than what
00:04:26.800 whatever we’re going through.
00:04:28.080 >> So when we kind of talk about the impact
00:04:30.720 of cloud you know for SMBsmemes or even
00:04:33.360 enterprises so organizations in in
00:04:35.680 general what does that really look like
00:04:37.840 in business terms? So that’s uh that’s
00:04:40.000 the thing nowadays you have uh the three
00:04:43.360 uh big titles uh which is private cloud,
00:04:47.120 hybrid cloud and you have the public
00:04:49.759 cloud. The public cloud is very known
00:04:51.440 that all Amazon, Google, Microsoft those
00:04:54.720 clouds are called as a public cloud and
00:04:56.960 they are the first one who stepped into
00:04:59.680 into the cloud world. They were able to
00:05:03.199 shift all this what we were talking
00:05:05.040 about from one word to another word in
00:05:07.039 it. But then you know things move
00:05:09.280 forward they created something called
00:05:10.960 private cloud that vendors and companies
00:05:13.440 that they have their own data center
00:05:15.280 they have their own cloud depending
00:05:16.960 where they are hosting it if it’s on
00:05:19.039 they’re hosting on the public cloud or
00:05:20.639 they’re hosting on their private data
00:05:22.320 center. So this is where the competition
00:05:25.360 started between those two and then
00:05:27.680 something else came in which is the
00:05:29.360 hybrid cloud that it is shifted between
00:05:32.160 two portions when you have the cloud and
00:05:34.880 you have onrem. This is where big
00:05:37.199 companies who can afford this type of
00:05:40.240 environment and it’s very important and
00:05:43.360 very practical to to be in this type of
00:05:46.960 of hybrid as uh as as a hybrid cloud
00:05:50.320 that you can prioritize the whatever you
00:05:53.199 want to put on the cloud and whatever is
00:05:55.199 more important for you want to keep it
00:05:56.639 on prem. Don’t forget there’s still a
00:05:58.800 lot of professionals like me um they’re
00:06:02.080 still attached into something called
00:06:04.800 onrem that they can feel better when
00:06:07.360 they feel their data is sitting near
00:06:09.120 them
00:06:10.080 >> and they can see their servers and they
00:06:12.720 can hear their servers that they feel
00:06:15.120 more comfortable security wise then
00:06:17.600 rather than put your all your
00:06:19.440 environment on on the cloud that you
00:06:21.440 don’t see you don’t hear nothing and you
00:06:23.039 have no control that was before now
00:06:25.600 things are moving like I said faster and
00:06:28.560 now you have control for your cloud but
00:06:30.720 before it was it’s like unknown your
00:06:33.199 cloud your servers are sitting on the
00:06:35.039 cloud but you have no no way to try to
00:06:37.919 to control whatever you want to do. This
00:06:40.080 is you know it’s it’s it’s strategy that
00:06:42.720 the private cloud they use to keep the
00:06:44.880 clients locked in. This is the uh the
00:06:47.360 main three big keys of cloud that that
00:06:50.639 now we are in.
00:06:51.600 >> Right. How do you choose which one to go
00:06:54.000 with? I mean what are what would be some
00:06:56.160 of the factors that would influence that
00:06:58.080 okay in this case a private cloud is
00:07:00.160 okay in this case we really need a sorry
00:07:02.720 in this case a public cloud is okay in
00:07:04.400 this case we really need private or a
00:07:06.160 hybrid would function as well what could
00:07:07.759 be some of the factors that you feel
00:07:10.160 could influence that decision
00:07:11.520 >> yeah very good question so a huge
00:07:13.680 discussion honestly that we we some
00:07:16.319 people they agree some people they don’t
00:07:18.160 agree one time I was one of the uh the
00:07:21.759 the main uh presenter in in a big event
00:07:24.880 and I had to present the difference
00:07:26.960 between the hybrid and private and
00:07:28.720 public and I and I was uh I was happy to
00:07:31.840 see a lot of professionals uh they were
00:07:34.639 they were in the meeting uh some are
00:07:36.960 agreeing with me some disagreeing with
00:07:38.960 me so it’s really it’s really not
00:07:41.440 something that you can you can take from
00:07:44.160 the shelf and then put it on the table
00:07:45.680 and say well this is the way it is and
00:07:47.199 that’s it no it depends the environment
00:07:49.120 so let me start with hybrid cloud
00:07:51.520 costwise if you want to if you are
00:07:53.840 talking about an SMB cost-wise is very
00:07:56.319 expensive for them, right?
00:07:57.440 >> It depends your so if you have a big
00:07:58.960 environment definitely and you have a
00:08:00.639 budget definitely hybrid will be the the
00:08:03.199 the best pick for you. when it comes to
00:08:06.160 uh to to to private or or public also
00:08:09.440 here it all depending on your private
00:08:11.440 cloud on the way how you feel
00:08:12.879 comfortable with me personally uh I use
00:08:15.759 private cloud for many reasons first the
00:08:18.319 size of the company and the environment
00:08:20.000 that was something that will force you
00:08:22.560 to to go through through uh through the
00:08:25.599 the cloud that you would like to have
00:08:27.599 second is the the budget so public cloud
00:08:30.960 nowaday is like very expensive they
00:08:33.839 charge you for inbound and outbound data
00:08:37.279 management service also is very
00:08:39.360 expensive. Again this is my opinion. I
00:08:42.640 respect all other professionals opinion
00:08:44.959 definitely and if you have a budget go
00:08:46.640 for it. Some people they like they sleep
00:08:48.800 better at night when they feel that
00:08:51.040 their data is on AWS or they are with
00:08:54.080 Google or Microsoft. Some people like me
00:08:56.880 I feel more better than if my data is in
00:08:59.360 a private cloud. It’s under uh even if
00:09:02.240 if the vendor is not that big but at
00:09:04.720 least you know there’s a team behind uh
00:09:07.440 your environment sitting 247 monitoring
00:09:10.480 your environment from any attack from
00:09:13.200 any suspicious access whatever happening
00:09:16.399 on your environment. You have you have a
00:09:18.800 team 24/7 looking after your environment
00:09:22.080 versus big companies. We can say yes
00:09:24.800 there is a big team but the big team is
00:09:27.040 taking care of millions and millions of
00:09:28.959 environments not really a small uh small
00:09:32.640 environment if you want to jump.
00:09:34.080 >> So you need someone large enough to
00:09:36.160 deliver but yet small enough to care
00:09:38.480 right. So that would be the ideal
00:09:40.399 combination.
00:09:41.120 >> So you have to see your size though. You
00:09:42.800 have to see your size and go with
00:09:44.240 whatever your size is. That’s my
00:09:46.160 opinion. You can have I’m going to be
00:09:48.320 honest with you. You can have 10 servers
00:09:50.080 and you can go on public go for it.
00:09:51.839 There’s no problem if you budget. But my
00:09:53.600 opinion is not worth it. It’s not worth
00:09:55.279 it because it’s a small environment. Now
00:09:57.120 if you have 200 servers, 300 servers,
00:09:59.519 you can do whatever you want whatever
00:10:00.959 you want with it. You can go on public
00:10:02.720 but in that case when it comes a big
00:10:04.800 environment like this I would rather to
00:10:06.880 go on hybrid. I would rather if there’s
00:10:08.720 a budget I’d rather to invest and go on
00:10:11.440 a hybrid cloud that you can split your
00:10:14.800 servers whatever is more critical for
00:10:16.959 you you keep it on prem and whatever is
00:10:19.600 really regular solutions applications
00:10:22.320 that really they don’t affect the
00:10:24.240 business much you put them on the cloud
00:10:25.920 like this you split your your
00:10:27.760 environment
00:10:28.480 >> right yes so you mentioned budget quite
00:10:30.399 a lot I would tend to agree with you so
00:10:32.079 I don’t know if you’ve read it but base
00:10:33.920 camp those guys their CTO kind of
00:10:36.320 published a study So their spend went up
00:10:38.640 to almost 3 million plus a year in 2021
00:10:41.680 or 2022 when they decided that hey we’ll
00:10:45.360 just move off AWS and and and GCP right
00:10:48.720 so I was reading up on it and this year
00:10:50.959 is their first year I think what he was
00:10:52.959 saying was in 26 when they’ll have no
00:10:54.959 spend so if you look at their data they
00:10:56.959 spent about 21 million in in last 7
00:11:00.399 years and he also wrote some numbers
00:11:02.560 which were around 34 which he had to
00:11:05.120 spend on an on-prem system and he was
00:11:07.360 like that I’ll recover this money in
00:11:08.880 what in 3 years or two years and it’s
00:11:11.040 the same team size I have the same team
00:11:13.200 I haven’t added any opex on that end so
00:11:15.440 he did a very thorough comparison on how
00:11:18.160 cloud can get so expensive that people
00:11:21.040 just don’t realize and they and then the
00:11:22.720 only reason they were because they
00:11:23.920 started moving in 2021 but 22 but they
00:11:26.399 had to stick with AWS because they had a
00:11:28.640 4-year binding contract on S3 which they
00:11:30.959 couldn’t really get out of right so they
00:11:32.560 were paying almost a million bucks a
00:11:34.160 year for that damn S3 bucket right So
00:11:37.200 >> yeah.
00:11:37.600 >> So yeah that’s a very that’s a very I
00:11:40.079 mean eyeopener and kind of a very
00:11:42.000 thorough good stage case study on how
00:11:44.160 you know onrem cost all these the cloud
00:11:46.720 companies have been able to really
00:11:48.560 create a marketing where they say we are
00:11:50.640 cheaper when they’re not right. So they
00:11:52.399 have they been able to successfully
00:11:53.839 create this perception. It might be
00:11:55.600 cheaper for you know a two person
00:11:57.120 startup three person startup but not for
00:11:58.800 an organization who’s probably spending
00:12:00.880 four five million bucks a year versus
00:12:02.880 they can just get their hardware once in
00:12:05.120 and be able to recover that cost over
00:12:07.440 time right so
00:12:08.320 >> a lot of professionals they say you know
00:12:10.560 what I am with AWS my head is clear uh
00:12:13.600 if anything happened I’m safe don’t
00:12:16.000 forget two week ago two weeks ago AWS
00:12:18.320 was down
00:12:19.040 >> yes the output was down no two days back
00:12:21.440 that can happen
00:12:22.079 >> so they were they had they had a hiccup
00:12:24.000 they had a hiccup and affected many many
00:12:26.480 businesses. So there is no guarantee
00:12:28.560 there is no guarantee that if you go to
00:12:31.440 a public or private that your head is
00:12:33.920 going to be uh less in trouble but yeah
00:12:37.839 you never know every time Microsoft
00:12:40.000 sometimes they have a lot of hiccups
00:12:41.680 during the day and then you have team is
00:12:43.360 not working you have something happening
00:12:45.279 so we don’t know we don’t know exactly
00:12:48.160 uh we cannot predict what’s going to
00:12:49.600 happen in the future it’s just it’s the
00:12:51.680 way how you feel about your environment
00:12:54.320 how you feel uh about your business, you
00:12:56.959 want to save money or you really uh want
00:13:00.240 your uh your freedom. It depends. It
00:13:02.959 depends exactly what you really want for
00:13:04.800 your environment.
00:13:05.440 >> That’s true. In your CIO applications
00:13:07.600 interview, you spotlighted kind of
00:13:09.519 vendor accountability, right? So, how do
00:13:12.000 you think in what ways business leaders
00:13:14.079 can ensure that their cloud partners
00:13:16.639 support strategy and overall be a right
00:13:19.680 partner, not just the infrastructure
00:13:21.600 side of things? you’re talking about
00:13:23.279 here the u the partnership between
00:13:27.519 between between between uh between
00:13:29.440 professionals and the the cloud
00:13:31.440 providers. Well, there there’s a big
00:13:33.600 role there is a big role for from your
00:13:36.079 side as a professional on on what you
00:13:38.959 want to do with your environment and and
00:13:40.720 how you want to protect your environment
00:13:42.079 and and and and you have to put a
00:13:43.760 strategy with the vendor that you’re
00:13:45.200 working with uh on any recovery any uh
00:13:49.200 security uh breach or or uh or any
00:13:52.800 attack happening. So this this is really
00:13:55.760 always depending on the strategy that
00:13:57.839 you have to put on the table. So yeah so
00:13:59.600 here where where you have to put the
00:14:01.279 strategy between you and your partner
00:14:03.680 which is the vendor put them on the
00:14:05.279 table put your your road map on anything
00:14:08.240 coming to security how to secure your
00:14:10.800 environment and how to recover when
00:14:12.720 there is a disaster that’s very
00:14:14.320 important the the important thing
00:14:16.079 because we live in in in in a world
00:14:19.839 where attackers are more than
00:14:22.079 professional like you have a lot of
00:14:24.079 attackers than than more than than than
00:14:26.800 professionals like even if you have some
00:14:29.120 people they used to be professionals and
00:14:31.360 they switched to be hackers or attackers
00:14:34.399 and went into this and they know the
00:14:36.399 whole game. They know exactly how it
00:14:38.160 work. They know exactly where to go and
00:14:40.320 how to profit from this experience. So
00:14:43.120 this is where your role is and your
00:14:44.959 experience play here on having a plan B
00:14:47.760 and plan C when things comes to a
00:14:50.079 disaster and how to recover, how fast
00:14:52.480 you want your business to come back
00:14:54.000 online, how fast you want to recover
00:14:55.839 from all the loss that you made with a
00:14:58.800 specific period of time that will not
00:15:01.120 affect the uh the profit of your of your
00:15:03.760 employer.
00:15:04.320 >> Okay. Typically, I mean you’ve worked
00:15:06.079 across many different industries, right?
00:15:08.000 So telecom be it banking legal logistics
00:15:10.880 and now probably distribution. There are
00:15:12.800 two things that I’d love to understand.
00:15:14.959 One where do you think typically orgs
00:15:18.399 are bleeding money or cost within their
00:15:21.760 existing environments? A and B how do
00:15:24.639 you really and and based on that what do
00:15:27.440 you think is what you know is a decision
00:15:29.760 that usually organizations get wrong
00:15:32.000 about technology decision- making right
00:15:33.839 so the process and the process itself
00:15:35.519 and what they can do about it. kind of
00:15:37.440 three-part question.
00:15:38.480 >> Yeah. So, let’s uh let’s start with the
00:15:40.320 a very interesting question. Every
00:15:42.720 business has its own fruitful interest.
00:15:45.760 If you want to go on the banking sector,
00:15:47.760 we all know that’s that’s the most uh
00:15:49.839 secured sector that has to be where all
00:15:52.560 the money is and all the investments are
00:15:54.959 and and when it comes to
00:15:56.079 telecommunication also their uh the
00:15:59.199 taste of their security is way different
00:16:01.519 than the banking sector. So we’re
00:16:03.440 talking about security of your network,
00:16:06.240 security of your clients, security of of
00:16:09.519 of many things. Now shifting to I worked
00:16:12.639 in the law firm. This is another word of
00:16:15.360 security when it comes to all the
00:16:17.920 financial data that you have on the
00:16:20.320 system which is very critical as well.
00:16:22.240 And then now I am into a retail business
00:16:24.720 which is also something uh very critical
00:16:27.759 when it comes to security. When you have
00:16:30.160 all the data of your clients and you
00:16:32.079 have millions of dollars being invested
00:16:35.120 in this company, you’re talking about
00:16:37.519 orders, you’re talking about
00:16:39.440 transactions, you’re talking about
00:16:41.519 identity. So uh so yeah, it’s it’s
00:16:44.399 everyone has its own u special way of
00:16:47.839 security. Personally, the most critical
00:16:50.800 one that I I I work for is the banking
00:16:55.279 sector. banking sector is something that
00:16:57.440 you can’t mess around with. You’re
00:16:59.839 talking about all the wealth of your
00:17:02.240 clients and people
00:17:04.640 >> the second day they want to go to the
00:17:06.240 machine. They just want to grab money
00:17:08.319 out from their account and if the
00:17:10.000 machine is not working it’s it’s a mess.
00:17:12.400 But again I I cannot I cannot separate
00:17:15.520 them because everyone has its own way of
00:17:19.760 security. But yeah, banking will be like
00:17:22.000 the most problematic critical security
00:17:25.919 that you have to work on.
00:17:27.280 >> Absolutely. One of the questions was
00:17:28.880 where do you think do they do
00:17:30.160 organizations typically bleed money or
00:17:32.080 they they’re spending just wrong in
00:17:33.919 terms of technology?
00:17:35.039 >> You mean uh you mean budget wise? budget
00:17:37.919 wise.
00:17:38.880 >> Yeah.
00:17:39.280 >> Yeah.
00:17:39.679 >> In their existing environments, where do
00:17:41.360 you think they’re usually bleeding money
00:17:42.960 which could be let’s say prevented or
00:17:44.799 >> I would say the banking sector is is the
00:17:47.600 most sector that invest a lot of money
00:17:49.600 on it. That was not the case before. So
00:17:52.480 26 years before it was not that very
00:17:55.520 known that you know banking they
00:17:57.600 supposed to follow the technology. Now,
00:18:00.160 now these days after the bitcoins and
00:18:03.280 after all those technology we have now
00:18:05.440 and after all these things that coming
00:18:07.679 along into into into the market, I would
00:18:10.080 say the banking sector is the most
00:18:12.480 sector that need to invest on the
00:18:14.880 security of of uh of his clients. Not
00:18:18.240 only this, don’t forget banking sector,
00:18:20.080 they invest in governments, they invest
00:18:22.160 in the war, they invest in the
00:18:24.640 technology, they invest into whatever
00:18:27.360 whatever comes into your head, it comes
00:18:29.200 through the banking sector. So, so
00:18:31.200 whatever whatever investment that has to
00:18:33.679 go through whatever business you are
00:18:35.840 working for, you have no way not to go
00:18:38.400 through the banking sector unless now uh
00:18:41.120 if they change this mentality and they
00:18:43.440 shift to more digital currency that is
00:18:46.960 not really uh what we have now as 100%
00:18:50.799 fully. So then again you have to invest
00:18:53.360 more money when it comes to digital
00:18:55.440 currency as well. Uh so yeah so that’s
00:18:57.360 that’s on the banking side. Second, I
00:18:59.440 would say it’s more uh telecommunication
00:19:02.240 companies, okay? That they need to
00:19:03.679 invest a lot on the network and security
00:19:06.160 beside clients wise and uh and and money
00:19:09.360 and and credit cards and and accounts.
00:19:11.840 Uh we’re talking network here that any
00:19:14.559 small breach happening in a
00:19:16.400 telecommunication company, they can shut
00:19:18.160 down entire tower and you have villages
00:19:21.919 and cities that are out of connection
00:19:24.640 and data. If this is affected, your
00:19:26.960 cloud is not working.
00:19:28.720 >> Yeah.
00:19:29.120 >> Your computer is not working. Your phone
00:19:32.000 is not working. So they’re gonna
00:19:34.160 paralyze the whole world when it comes
00:19:35.840 to telecommunication.
00:19:36.960 >> Right.
00:19:37.280 >> Yeah. I I would say those two sectors
00:19:39.600 are the most critical ones that you need
00:19:42.080 to invest money with.
00:19:43.280 >> So when you kind of started kicking off
00:19:45.840 the modernization process, let’s say
00:19:48.400 Triumph Empire, what did day one look
00:19:50.400 like? You know, where they were, what
00:19:52.720 was the before and after? I mean let’s
00:19:54.720 talk about the before and then we can
00:19:56.640 discuss what really changed during the
00:19:58.960 transformation process.
00:20:00.160 >> Yeah. So uh when it comes to
00:20:02.720 modernization technology this is across
00:20:05.760 different industries. Okay. It’s not
00:20:07.360 only one industry talking about in
00:20:09.520 general here you prioritize uh the
00:20:12.000 customer experience first. So this is
00:20:13.919 this is your income. So your customer
00:20:15.679 experience has to be uh prioritized
00:20:18.720 adopting cloud first and APIdriven
00:20:22.080 architecture. For example, cyber
00:20:24.000 security wise and zero trust models this
00:20:26.880 you have to straighten this. So this is
00:20:28.880 something very important that you have
00:20:30.080 to focus on security always security
00:20:32.880 comes uh the main point of of any
00:20:35.919 environment any business uh anywhere in
00:20:39.120 the world security wise if you can
00:20:41.360 automate the workflow or automate your
00:20:43.840 operations uh this is also something
00:20:46.320 that you have to take in consideration
00:20:48.480 knowledge wise education wise have the
00:20:51.120 right team have the right team that can
00:20:53.600 can lead this uh the shifting from from
00:20:56.960 one to other technology and uh and
00:21:00.240 culture. So you need to invest you need
00:21:02.400 to invest on good employees, high
00:21:04.640 skilled ones at least you need two
00:21:07.039 members in your team that they’re really
00:21:08.880 top of the edge. So they are really
00:21:11.039 professional people they know what
00:21:12.320 they’re doing and then you look if you
00:21:14.480 want to bring some junior employees then
00:21:16.159 they will learn but you need to have the
00:21:18.400 main main employees that you can you can
00:21:20.720 count on them. Also you have to build
00:21:23.120 scalability and resilience. This is
00:21:25.200 something also you have to work on when
00:21:27.200 you when it comes to to your team to
00:21:30.000 your environment to your uh uh starting
00:21:33.280 your road map and starting your
00:21:34.720 projects. This is where where you have
00:21:36.240 to to to to look at. Now we have AI. So
00:21:40.000 you need to leverage AI in your
00:21:42.000 environment as well. So this is
00:21:43.440 something also that you need to focus
00:21:45.360 on. We can combine them all together and
00:21:48.240 then it goes to the cloud. So all this
00:21:50.559 has to be whatever your cloud is if it
00:21:53.039 was hybrid or if it was private or or
00:21:56.000 public
00:21:56.559 >> public
00:21:57.200 >> all this is linked to your cloud and is
00:22:00.000 linked to where your data is and what
00:22:02.480 are you doing with your data.
00:22:04.320 >> So what’s the most common excuse you’ve
00:22:06.400 heard from let’s say leadership or
00:22:08.080 business unit heads where they’re kind
00:22:09.919 of delaying modernization any anything
00:22:12.640 comes up in mind?
00:22:13.679 >> A lot of excuses.
00:22:15.840 A lot of excuses. The most the most
00:22:18.240 excuse is our system work fine.
00:22:20.640 >> Yeah.
00:22:21.039 >> I don’t want to do nothing. I’m okay
00:22:22.559 with it. I don’t want to touch it.
00:22:24.080 That’s what I heard when I first came uh
00:22:26.559 to Franklin Empire actually. Why we need
00:22:28.640 to move to the cloud? Everything is
00:22:30.559 working fine. Why we have to invest
00:22:32.480 money on this one? If it’s working when
00:22:34.640 it break, I will change it. You know, I
00:22:36.640 mean those excuses and then they have
00:22:38.720 those nightmares that they think if you
00:22:41.120 if you do any modernization, it’s going
00:22:43.520 to be so expensive. So, they don’t want
00:22:45.440 to just hear about it. But when you
00:22:47.440 break this everything down to them and
00:22:49.840 see that the cost is going to be cheaper
00:22:52.640 sometimes in some cases and some cases
00:22:55.039 it’s going to maybe it’s going to be
00:22:56.559 even. So then you’ll see their eyes like
00:22:59.039 they pop out and be like oh okay we
00:23:01.360 didn’t know this or
00:23:02.320 >> so they’re not able to figure out the
00:23:04.320 ROI. So if you establish the ROI in
00:23:06.559 front of them that helps you build a
00:23:08.000 case.
00:23:08.559 >> Exactly. Exactly. So when you share the
00:23:10.559 ROI with them then they will start to
00:23:13.360 sit on the table and and start to think
00:23:15.200 about it. Also what you have to what
00:23:17.520 what you hear most is I don’t have
00:23:19.600 professionals in my team why I have to
00:23:21.840 go there but but this is exactly where
00:23:25.200 you take your decision uh before you
00:23:27.360 take your decision this is where you
00:23:28.799 where you you decide which one you want
00:23:31.280 to pick. Do you want to pick a private
00:23:33.039 cloud or a hybrid cloud or you want to
00:23:35.440 go with public cloud. Yes, understand if
00:23:38.080 you go public, you need your your your
00:23:40.000 experts people to be in your team. But
00:23:42.080 when you go private, it’s your
00:23:44.480 professional people. You save on
00:23:46.480 employees and you invest them on the
00:23:48.880 private cloud and they take care of your
00:23:50.960 environment. They are taking care of all
00:23:52.559 the patches and the updates. They are
00:23:54.320 firing up a server, shutting down a
00:23:56.400 server. they taking care of everything
00:23:58.640 instead of hiring someone uh
00:24:01.280 professional in your team and then this
00:24:04.559 someone asks someone that today he’s not
00:24:07.440 feeling good to work or today there’s
00:24:10.000 traffic late to come to the office those
00:24:13.039 headaches this is all this is they are
00:24:15.679 benefits these are like pros that you
00:24:18.000 have to take in consideration when when
00:24:20.240 it comes to to the cloud and your
00:24:22.480 environment and your network people they
00:24:25.039 always say that my budget is prioritized
00:24:28.880 somewhere else. That’s a problem.
00:24:31.360 Problem is that they think it it’s only
00:24:34.880 a department who spend a lot but doesn’t
00:24:38.240 bring an income to the company. That’s
00:24:40.159 the problem with it. And this is where
00:24:41.919 they don’t understand that you need to
00:24:44.240 invest on it for you to be able to bring
00:24:47.360 an income to your company. That’s the
00:24:49.360 problem. They think, oh, you know what,
00:24:51.520 $1 million or $2 million on IT
00:24:53.679 department, but what the IT are bringing
00:24:55.279 me back? I invested on marketing. I
00:24:57.120 invested on salespeople. I invested
00:24:58.960 somewhere else. Yeah. But the marketing
00:25:00.320 cannot work without the IT and the sales
00:25:02.320 people cannot be functional without the
00:25:03.840 IT. So if if your system is down, no one
00:25:06.640 is able to do anything.
00:25:07.919 >> Yeah.
00:25:08.320 >> This is that’s the most challenge that
00:25:10.799 we are facing as as professionals and
00:25:13.520 leaders with upper management and and uh
00:25:17.600 the company owners or or or the the
00:25:20.240 board of of a company. Beside that some
00:25:23.120 people they have an excuse that oh we
00:25:25.279 tried but we failed as well
00:25:26.960 >> right
00:25:27.360 >> so we tried to move to the cloud but it
00:25:29.200 didn’t work which is I don’t find this
00:25:31.440 as as as a convincing excuse because
00:25:34.240 there’s nothing called failure in it you
00:25:36.480 have to keep trying and you have to keep
00:25:38.240 moving forward otherwise you’re going to
00:25:40.159 be way be behind the technology and last
00:25:43.120 thing that I I always hear it in our
00:25:46.159 roundts or our our summits or meetings
00:25:49.039 is uh we don’t have time we are busy on
00:25:51.840 something else. They focus on different
00:25:54.640 solution. They focus on something else.
00:25:56.799 We don’t have time for this. Keep it as
00:25:58.559 is. So, so yeah. So, it’s uh it’s it’s
00:26:01.360 very challenging. Uh we try to convin
00:26:04.400 other other professionals on on how to
00:26:06.320 do things and how to move forward with
00:26:08.159 their technology.
00:26:09.200 >> So, keeping that and keeping all of this
00:26:11.279 in mind, right? So for businesses for I
00:26:13.600 mean leaders who feel overwhelmed we
00:26:15.200 don’t have time for businesses that are
00:26:17.360 stuck between legacy systems and future
00:26:19.200 needs that we don’t need it it’s working
00:26:21.039 okay etc. What do you think is the
00:26:22.880 smartest first move to kind of build a
00:26:26.080 momentum towards that change?
00:26:27.760 >> Yeah. Yeah. So the first thing that they
00:26:30.080 have to take in in in consideration is
00:26:33.600 how their the legacy of their system
00:26:35.919 dependency. So they have to check their
00:26:38.480 environment what is critical and what is
00:26:40.640 not critical. What is what applications
00:26:43.200 are more critical than other
00:26:44.799 applications? this they have to sit and
00:26:47.039 and try to split their environment on
00:26:50.960 okay you know what if this application
00:26:53.200 is down the whole entire company cannot
00:26:56.320 work so this is something critical and
00:26:58.080 then you have to split in two different
00:27:01.200 tables that okay this is the most
00:27:03.520 critical applications that I need to
00:27:05.919 make sure 100% they are safe they are
00:27:07.919 backed up and they can recover fast and
00:27:10.240 then move on the other one if you want
00:27:11.760 to talk budget wise so if you don’t want
00:27:13.279 to re go fully 100% % on the cloud one
00:27:16.960 shot and this is the strategy I used
00:27:19.200 three years ago actually with my current
00:27:21.120 employer. So what happened is that I
00:27:23.200 kept my ERP, I kept my CRM, I kept my
00:27:28.000 ecom specific servers, I kept them on
00:27:31.520 the public cloud, didn’t touch them,
00:27:33.760 make sure everything is fine. And I
00:27:35.039 started to move slowly slowly servers
00:27:37.520 that that something bad happened. I can
00:27:40.080 still survive without it until I
00:27:41.919 recover. After 100% I’m very confident
00:27:45.120 with the communication between me and uh
00:27:48.400 the private uh the cloud provider.
00:27:50.799 Everything working fine smoothly
00:27:52.400 security wise everything is is is well
00:27:55.679 determined and everything is is is up to
00:27:57.840 date connection wise internet wise
00:27:59.919 network-wise everything is well uh
00:28:02.640 configured. Then I moved my critical
00:28:05.760 portion to the same cloud and it’s been
00:28:08.240 three years so far. Thank god not even
00:28:10.720 one hiccup.
00:28:11.440 >> Right. So yeah, so standard way of
00:28:13.520 transferring or transitioning some of
00:28:15.520 the systems, getting them there, running
00:28:17.679 two systems in parallel for some time
00:28:20.000 and then kind of moving away to
00:28:22.000 everything. Okay, that’s good.
00:28:23.440 >> It’s it’s all depending on your budget.
00:28:25.120 It’s all depending on your budget. Uh
00:28:26.720 now if if if you have a budget and you
00:28:29.039 have a big environment, I would
00:28:30.399 definitely go hybrid. I will I will not
00:28:32.320 think twice about it. I did this huge
00:28:34.640 study about it. I went to many
00:28:36.640 conference about the hybrid environment.
00:28:38.799 You need a big you need a big
00:28:40.080 environment. So yes, so when it comes to
00:28:42.320 critical applications, you keep them on
00:28:44.720 prem and the rest to put them on the
00:28:46.720 cloud and this is how you do the
00:28:49.360 combination between the two. So this
00:28:51.120 will be the ideal way
00:28:52.720 >> maybe high traffic ones high traffic
00:28:55.039 intensity ones kind of stay on prem to
00:28:57.440 to save on the cost side as well and and
00:29:00.080 those kind of things. Absolutely.
00:29:01.760 >> Like I mentioned this require a big team
00:29:03.919 professionals people who take care of
00:29:05.919 your environment was on the cloud or if
00:29:07.679 it was on prem. So this is I’m talking
00:29:10.480 about here a uh a big enterprise with a
00:29:13.279 big environment. Yeah. Okay. Got it.
00:29:14.960 Joseph on an ending note what is the
00:29:17.120 hardest lesson that you have learned you
00:29:20.080 know in modernization if you can recall
00:29:22.480 any.
00:29:22.880 >> The hardest lesson is to trust your
00:29:25.919 vendor or your partner. I would say
00:29:28.559 partner because he the vendor is my
00:29:31.200 partner. So the hardest period that I
00:29:33.760 went through is you need to trust the
00:29:35.679 person who you are working with and
00:29:37.440 you’re putting all your environment
00:29:38.960 under their responsibility. So that’s
00:29:41.120 that’s the main key that you need to
00:29:43.840 build a nice relationship between you
00:29:47.120 and your partners. Make sure that you
00:29:50.480 study well your partner before you move
00:29:53.120 with your partner. Make sure you check
00:29:55.760 your check the feedback about this
00:29:57.919 partner. listen to all the the cons that
00:30:01.039 this partner faced. Okay. Or you join
00:30:04.159 check all the challenges that this
00:30:05.760 partner went through and and how this
00:30:08.000 part everyone goes through challenges.
00:30:09.760 Definitely nobody is perfect. It’s just
00:30:11.919 how they recovered from those
00:30:13.840 challenges. Uh this is the most
00:30:15.600 important thing. Security-wise is the
00:30:17.840 main main key and the main title that
00:30:20.960 you have to secure your environment.
00:30:23.120 Make sure you trust your partner. Make
00:30:24.960 sure everything is secured. This is the
00:30:27.039 hardest point let’s say that you need to
00:30:30.080 work on when you want to do this step.
00:30:31.840 Definitely.
00:30:32.159 >> Got it. So, choose your partner wisely
00:30:34.320 both in life and in it.
00:30:36.640 >> Exactly.
00:30:37.360 >> Okay. So, on that note, Joseph, I will
00:30:40.000 kind of end it and it’s been a pleasure
00:30:42.159 having you on Tech Unengaged. I really
00:30:44.320 appreciate your time and your candid as
00:30:46.720 well. So, it it was it was really an
00:30:48.799 interesting conversation.
00:30:49.840 >> Thank you so much for having me. It was
00:30:51.600 my pleasure also to share my experience
00:30:54.559 and my expertise with with you guys and
00:30:57.440 hopefully uh our audience profit from
00:31:00.240 from our conversation today.
00:31:01.440 >> Absolutely. Absolutely.
